Semiconductor industry braces for CHIPS Act fallout after federal job cuts

JupitersMoon said:

First off, you could not be more wrong. If you are going to use a source, any educated person would know that it would need to be a creditable source. Here are the actual facts that you are afraid to unveil because it would destroy your narrowed view of American history and the world:

"The Ku Flux Klan (KKK) was founded by Southern White Democrats in 1865 in Pulaski, Tennessee, during the Reconstruction era. Loyal to the Democratic Party, the Klan enlisted men and WOMEN from all classes".

Source: Cambridge.org

Not so arrogant now are we? more like ignorant..

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See: Southern Strategy. Today's Democratic Party is not the same one that founded the KKK. Seriously, you have your history incorrect. Southern Strategy

You also have a hard time replying without insulting?

Stick to the topic please. Thanks.

Just because there were firings doesn't preclude new hirings to meet the staffing needs of these two acts, but perhaps in a scaled-down, more efficient manner. Many of these government agencies are so broken it is impossible to fix them with the scalpel approach. A chansaw is what is appropriate so you can start from the ground up with a health foundation. The public needs to be patient and be willing to bite the bullet for a time until needed large changes have time to bear the fruit of their wisdom.

JupitersMoon said:

Oh trust me I get it, but you should also remember historically taxation was only suppose to be temporary during World War II. There was a reason for the Boston Tea massacre over 2% taxation. My point is that more taxes is not going to fix this problem, accountability of government spending is part of a solution as well. I'll use this analogy: It's like you knowing your parents are financially irresponsible and they keep asking for money to spend on whatever they like with no accountability. No reasonable person would do that and the same analogy should apply to the government.

We are in this predicament because the government deficit and wasteful spending which is severely devaluing the dollar power. Purchasing power is at an all time low while wages have stagnated and cost of living have sky rocketed.

I think this is more than just a taxation problem, but a systematic issue that if not rectified will continue to get worse and worse each generation. There is a reason why Gen Z's are considered the poorest generation and we are just witnessing the tip of the iceberg in our lifetime.

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I agree to your take, but a government such as yours governing a country as ambitious as yours, need to tax people fairly. All. The. People.

You make it sound a bit like government wasting money is the only reason for the staggering US deficit, and stopping that is fundamental. I’m confident you know that is only part of the problem. A good, fair, proportional taxation system would also go a long way in bringing the deficit down to a more manageable, dare I say sustainable or at the very least serviceable size.

There’s no reason reducing the deficit shouldn’t be a multi pronged approach as there’s no reason people like Mr. Musk or Mr Bezos or Mr Gates or Mr Zuckerberg or Mr Thiel (to mention only a few more prominent ones) shouldn’t pay their fair share in taxes.

Everyone should contribute to their part, no?

"We need a billionaire taxcut refresh. Because most of us billionaires can only afford one 300ft yatch with teenage girls on it and we really deserve two of those ..."

BogdanR said:

But remember when every Average Joe was able to work a decent job, have a car, a house, a wife taking care of his 2.2-2.5 kids, have money for college, a vacation and a pension fund? All on a single salary? Those times when inordinate amounts of money went into the space program which pushed America technologically farther ahead than anyone else? Those times in which America helped rebuild Europe and Japan and stemmed the advance of Communism and reaping all the advantages from those relationships, but still had money to put in a Social Net? Remember what taxation was back then? Like in the ‘50s-‘60s?
Well…

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That was a onetime deal from winning WWII. It WAS NOT NORMAL IT WAS 30 years out of 250+ years of American history! For the other 220 years we had 2 wage earner famiies, people worked 50h weeks, and there was no automotive boom resulting in a housing boom because, suburbs, to make houses dirt cheap ...

systemBuilder said:

That was a onetime deal from winning WWII. It WAS NOT NORMAL IT WAS 30 years out of 250+ years of American history! For the other 220 years we had 2 wage earner famiies, people worked 50h weeks, and there was no automotive boom resulting in a housing boom because, suburbs, to make houses dirt cheap ...

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I see. What all the Administrations since Reagan were doing in the last 45 years is so much better!!! I stand corrected!
/sarcasm off
Sorry I could not help myself, I apologize!

systemBuilder said:

That was a onetime deal from winning WWII. It WAS NOT NORMAL IT WAS 30 years out of 250+ years of American history! For the other 220 years we had 2 wage earner famiies, people worked 50h weeks, and there was no automotive boom resulting in a housing boom because, suburbs, to make houses dirt cheap ...

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Not quite true.

First; Women were never a large part of the wage earning population. Yes, everyone (including women) worked hard, but historically, most women stayed at home taking care of children. Men were doing almost all the heavy labor. Farming, mining, construction, police/military, trade work.

Second: Why do you say a 'onetime deal'? There's literally no reason why America cannot bring back the bounty of the postwar years.

Why do Leftists hate the idea of creating a prosperous America? Our leaders should be doing everything possible for the people.

Tantor said:

Second: Why do you say a 'onetime deal'? There's literally no reason why America cannot bring back the bounty of the postwar years.

Why do Leftists hate the idea of creating a prosperous America? Our leaders should be doing everything possible for the people.

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So what was the level of taxation then? I'm still waiting for an answer here.
I'm sure a Rightie would love the idea of higher taxation for the good of all, right ?

And since Musk was helped by tens of billions in government money (especially when Tesla was struggling to keep afloat) I'm sure you're also all up for the Federal government to help fund new, innovative companies thru their initial struggles, right?

Sound Conservative ideas all, right? Right?

BogdanR said:

So what was the level of taxation then? I'm still waiting for an answer here.
I'm sure a Rightie would love the idea of higher taxation for the good of all, right ?

And since Musk was helped by tens of billions in government money (especially when Tesla was struggling to keep afloat) I'm sure you're also all up for the Federal government to help fund new, innovative companies thru their initial struggles, right?

Sound Conservative ideas all, right? Right?

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Trump is the ONLY president in recent history who voiced any real concern for our present $30 trillion debt. I totally support DOGE ripping the cover off the corruption behind the debt.

Leftists are supposed to be 'for the common man'. Ending government corruption should be very good for the citizens. So why do Leftists unilaterally oppose any investigation into government corruption?

It's because the corruption is primarily Leftist in nature.

Tantor said:

Trump is the ONLY president in recent history who voiced any real concern for our present $30 trillion debt. I totally support DOGE ripping the cover off the corruption behind the debt.

Leftists are supposed to be 'for the common man'. Ending government corruption should be very good for the citizens. So why do Leftists unilaterally oppose any investigation into government corruption?

It's because the corruption is primarily Leftist in nature.

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Thank you for not answering and completely shifting the conversation. How very Ben Shapiro of you.

I especially love your blanket statements such as : "Leftist oppose any investigation into government corruption" which are ignoring previous answers in this very thread, followed by a logical fallacy of proportions : "Corruption is primarily Leftist in nature" .

Sorry but this concludes our interactions in this thread. I don't have time for this sort of "debate".

BogdanR said:

Good luck telling a Taiwan company, one that’s holding the military by the short and curlies, what to do.
Rather pray to whatever God you believe in and to your fearless leader Trump, Taiwan doesn’t go into closer ties with the Mainland. I would, after the embarrassment of America folding to Putin. I mean you folks are voting now with Russia, North Korea and Iran… what do you expect? Pretty much everyone in the civilized world is looking to divest from you. Politely for now.

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Maybe but we hold all of the advanced technology remember we can literally order Intel AMD Nvidia broadcom to stop selling anybody in the world those products and there's not a damn thing there as the world can do about it.
Your alternatives would be to use the stuff produced by China which can't keep up with a Pentium 4.

As far as I'm holding us by short hairs most of our military equipment doesn't use chips that rely on anything they produce procurement laws involving military hardware require 100% require that they can be made with domestic sources and the chips cannot be made overseas 110% none of our military equipment uses chips made in Taiwan.

Now Taiwan Luther King is definitely by the short hairs here because the only reason the mainland has an invaded is because China is absolutely terrified of what a couple of Virginia class boats in the seventh carrier group will do to an invasion force. The only reason people Taiwan want free right now is because we protect them in Trump's not going to let China have Taiwan either way they're too valuable to let China have control of if it came down to it and there was no way to stop China he probably order the complete leveling of the island with carpet bombing or nuclear warfare before letting China have access to the technology.

candle86 said:

Maybe but we hold all of the advanced technology remember we can literally order Intel AMD Nvidia broadcom to stop selling anybody in the world those products and there's not a damn thing there as the world can do about it.
Your alternatives would be to use the stuff produced by China which can't keep up with a Pentium 4.

As far as I'm holding us by short hairs most of our military equipment doesn't use chips that rely on anything they produce procurement laws involving military hardware require 100% require that they can be made with domestic sources and the chips cannot be made overseas 110% none of our military equipment uses chips made in Taiwan.

Now Taiwan Luther King is definitely by the short hairs here because the only reason the mainland has an invaded is because China is absolutely terrified of what a couple of Virginia class boats in the seventh carrier group will do to an invasion force. The only reason people Taiwan want free right now is because we protect them in Trump's not going to let China have Taiwan either way they're too valuable to let China have control of if it came down to it and there was no way to stop China he probably order the complete leveling of the island with carpet bombing or nuclear warfare before letting China have access to the technology.

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So who makes those chips? Which fab? Its location?
Yea, I thought so.

And also Taiwan is not important because you have all the technology, but you would level it so the China doesn’t have access to the tech. So which is it, you got me all confused…

You seem to ignore TSMC owns currently the most advanced chip making processes. The best Intel has is a more than 10 years old 12nm process. They are trying now a new process but nothing is assured there. For someone commenting on a tech site you seem quite out of touch with the current state of the industry.

TSMC could start a new advanced fab in China tomorrow and there’s not a damn thing US can do about it. Except play nice so they don’t do it. The current administration is doing the EXACT opposite lately, proving themselves to be an unreliable partner, to mostly everyone except Russia, North Korea and other rogue states.

US is currently perceived by the world as a hostile nation. Even by their traditional allies. This is the reality. This is the bed your administration made for you. You seem to like it, so why would I take you from your pleasure?

Have a fantastic day!

The Talking Tech said:

Watch it burn....

Tariffs and paying people in America more than what foreign employees would get paid it would only mean much higher prices for consumers.

You can't have it both ways...you can't have certain jobs back and still pay cheaper prices.

Many will wish they never voted for Trump.

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The biggest take away from this isn't the cost of chips for the consumer. It's the cost of building factories versus the cost of tariffs. I have no idea what the breakeven point on tariffs is, but they would have to be so high for any company to consider building a fab rather than paying a tariff. Tariffs do not increase manufacturing for products that aren't currently being produced.

These tariffs are specifically for putting more money in the government coffers and not bringing manufacturing back to the US.

Tantor said:

Trump is the ONLY president in recent history who voiced any real concern for our present $30 trillion debt. I totally support DOGE ripping the cover off the corruption behind the debt.

Leftists are supposed to be 'for the common man'. Ending government corruption should be very good for the citizens. So why do Leftists unilaterally oppose any investigation into government corruption?

It's because the corruption is primarily Leftist in nature.

Click to expand...

You're gullible. Trump has talked about it, but he has no concern for it. You know full well you can't believe anything any politician says, especially Trump. Actions speak louder than words, no one is going after corruption, and no one is trying to cut any national dept.

What is in the "Bill Beautiful Spending Bill"? Where are the actions in that bill to reduce the national debt?

Elon bought his position and made promises to cut $2 Trillion while being totally transparent before doing any research to seeing how much could be cut. So now they are not being transparent about why things are being cut and are overestimating how much saving are in those cuts. The first rounds of cuts came almost immediately with no more than a week of research before large swaths of funding and jobs were cut. That's someone looking at titles they don't understand for projects they don't understand with costs they don't understand and doing no more research. Finding waste would be as easy as talking to the employees for things they think are wasteful, but these people haven't met a single person they fired.

How can you fully support these rich people who have no history of altruism? Why would they care about corruption that doesn't affect the money in their pockets at a time when they are trying to pass tax cuts for their rich friends?

I agree with you as you could also agree that no company is going to absorb the tariffs or the cost for construction of their new buildings without somehow charging the consumers one way or another for it.

BogdanR said:

So who makes those chips? Which fab? Its location?
Yea, I thought so.

And also Taiwan is not important because you have all the technology, but you would level it so the China doesn’t have access to the tech. So which is it, you got me all confused…

You seem to ignore TSMC owns currently the most advanced chip making processes. The best Intel has is a more than 10 years old 12nm process. They are trying now a new process but nothing is assured there. For someone commenting on a tech site you seem quite out of touch with the current state of the industry.

TSMC could start a new advanced fab in China tomorrow and there’s not a damn thing US can do about it. Except play nice so they don’t do it. The current administration is doing the EXACT opposite lately, proving themselves to be an unreliable partner, to mostly everyone except Russia, North Korea and other rogue states.

US is currently perceived by the world as a hostile nation. Even by their traditional allies. This is the reality. This is the bed your administration made for you. You seem to like it, so why would I take you from your pleasure?

Have a fantastic day!

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They can't open an advanced Fab in China The technology that actually makes a lithography machines how long those patents are owned by American companies is under export control TSMC would lose its license entirely if they did that they know it they're not stupid.

As far as where the US makes its chips there's multiple semiconductor fabrication facilities here in the United States a whole lot of them they're not making commercial chips they're making military great hardware this is a federal government requirement our military procurement has to be sourced locally it's the law The chips are missile systems to our I-35 are all coming from US manufacturers because the law says it has to they're not coming from Taiwan.

As far as wood Trump level it yes Yes he would we need to be developing those fabrication facilities here but if it look like we couldn't prevent Taiwan for being captured you're damn right we would level the entire island and make sure nothing bigger than a piece of gravel existed to prevent China from having access

Bobbydpue said:

The biggest take away from this isn't the cost of chips for the consumer. It's the cost of building factories versus the cost of tariffs. I have no idea what the breakeven point on tariffs is, but they would have to be so high for any company to consider building a fab rather than paying a tariff. Tariffs do not increase manufacturing for products that aren't currently being produced.

These tariffs are specifically for putting more money in the government coffers and not bringing manufacturing back to the US.


You're gullible. Trump has talked about it, but he has no concern for it. You know full well you can't believe anything any politician says, especially Trump. Actions speak louder than words, no one is going after corruption, and no one is trying to cut any national dept.

What is in the "Bill Beautiful Spending Bill"? Where are the actions in that bill to reduce the national debt?

Elon bought his position and made promises to cut $2 Trillion while being totally transparent before doing any research to seeing how much could be cut. So now they are not being transparent about why things are being cut and are overestimating how much saving are in those cuts. The first rounds of cuts came almost immediately with no more than a week of research before large swaths of funding and jobs were cut. That's someone looking at titles they don't understand for projects they don't understand with costs they don't understand and doing no more research. Finding waste would be as easy as talking to the employees for things they think are wasteful, but these people haven't met a single person they fired.

How can you fully support these rich people who have no history of altruism? Why would they care about corruption that doesn't affect the money in their pockets at a time when they are trying to pass tax cuts for their rich friends?

Click to expand...

I don't know musk bought Twitter and got rid of the sensors and decided free speech is important you know who I trust more a billionaire who can't be bought then somebody who was serving coffee and is suddenly now a millionaire even though her salary doesn't allow it to be possible

candle86 said:

They can't open an advanced Fab in China The technology that actually makes a lithography machines how long those patents are owned by American companies is under export control TSMC would lose its license entirely if they did that they know it they're not stupid.

As far as where the US makes its chips there's multiple semiconductor fabrication facilities here in the United States a whole lot of them they're not making commercial chips they're making military great hardware this is a federal government requirement our military procurement has to be sourced locally it's the law The chips are missile systems to our I-35 are all coming from US manufacturers because the law says it has to they're not coming from Taiwan.

As far as wood Trump level it yes Yes he would we need to be developing those fabrication facilities here but if it look like we couldn't prevent Taiwan for being captured you're damn right we would level the entire island and make sure nothing bigger than a piece of gravel existed to prevent China from having access

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As I mentioned previously, your information is out of date.

Extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography machines are built by ASML, a Dutch company which introduced the first one in 2017. They do have facilities for building these machines in US.
So, the processes are developed and owned by TSMC on a machine built by a Dutch company who owns the lithography technology.

Again, absolutely no one can do a damned thing against TSMC opening a new fab wherever they damn please. Except nuking the place says you and other people in America. And then you wonder why the rest of the world doesn’t like you.

BogdanR said:

As I mentioned previously, your information is out of date.

Extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography machines are built by ASML, a Dutch company which introduced the first one in 2017. They do have facilities for building these machines in US.
So, the processes are developed and owned by TSMC on a machine built by a Dutch company who owns the lithography technology.

Again, absolutely no one can do a damned thing against TSMC opening a new fab wherever they damn please. Except nuking the place says you and other people in America. And then you wonder why the rest of the world doesn’t like you.

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Wrong again

BogdanR said:

As I mentioned previously, your information is out of date.

Extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography machines are built by ASML, a Dutch company which introduced the first one in 2017. They do have facilities for building these machines in US.
So, the processes are developed and owned by TSMC on a machine built by a Dutch company who owns the lithography technology.

Again, absolutely no one can do a damned thing against TSMC opening a new fab wherever they damn please. Except nuking the place says you and other people in America. And then you wonder why the rest of the world doesn’t like you.

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Wrong but for a reason you don't seem to grasp the chips TSMC's building their patents that are controlled by American companies while the machines may be built in Holland they're based on patents owned by United States cokpanies that's why we were able to put trade controls that prevent them from going into China.

And somebody who's on a technology website they should be informed already be aware. why do you think we were able to impose sanctions on China that prevent them from getting their hands on advanced lithograph machines if they're controlled by Holland it's because they produce it but the patents are all held here in America it's still American information. Now you can be angry about that all you want but it doesn't actually change the facts and anytime America wants to they could decide to add Taiwan to their do not export list at that point it would be illegal for those lithography machines to be sent to Taiwann. Now are they going to do that no but the patents are on here in America and do they have the ability to do it they have the legal right to do it

candle86 said:

Wrong again

Wrong but for a reason you don't seem to grasp the chips TSMC's building their patents that are controlled by American companies while the machines may be built in Holland they're based on patents owned by United States cokpanies that's why we were able to put trade controls that prevent them from going into China.

And somebody who's on a technology website they should be informed already be aware. why do you think we were able to impose sanctions on China that prevent them from getting their hands on advanced lithograph machines if they're controlled by Holland it's because they produce it but the patents are all held here in America it's still American information. Now you can be angry about that all you want but it doesn't actually change the facts and anytime America wants to they could decide to add Taiwan to their do not export list at that point it would be illegal for those lithography machines to be sent to Taiwann. Now are they going to do that no but the patents are on here in America and do they have the ability to do it they have the legal right to do it

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American companies such as Intel own the design of the chips and in the particular case of Intel a 12nm process. Nvidia also owns its chip design but not the process. AMD co developed with TSMC some processes so they have partial rights plus off course their chip designs. Those are the reasons why the US can exercise some control over the actual export of chips.

However the top citing companies in the ASML Holding patent portfolio are Carl Zeiss, Nikon and Canon. Name the American company there please. Absolutely no one can stop ASML to sell their most advanced lithography machines to Burkina Faso or to whoever else.

Conversely, TSMC is a Taiwanese company and they can open plants anywhere they please or it is advantageous for them. The last one they opened is in Arizona and they were enticed to do so by legislation voted in by Biden’s Administration.

The second the advantages are gone or TSMC feels threatened they may take ANY decision to mitigate that because the US doesn’t own them or ASML or any intellectual property concerning such facilities. Sure, TSMC won’t build any more American designed chips, but then the American companies will have to find someone else to build their chips.

This is the reality. Deal with it.

I’m done here.